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new game idea - input needed

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abdantas
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Joined: 11/13/2012

Good Morning, I've been playing around with a new idea for a game in my head for the last couple of weeks and I think it's a winner. Would like some input on where I could maybe simplify or ideas you would like to see expanded upon.

Theme - Dystopian fantasy future (orks, elves, dwarves, aliens, guns, laser weapons etc). Factions are fighting for control of the continent. There's not quite enough room for everyone to mingle so players fight for control on the board.

Winning Condition - Right now the winning condition is whomever gains the most points. The game ends after a predetermined amount of turns, or when someone expands their kingdom to 6 tiles and manages to hold it until the beginning of their next turn.

Set-up: Each player picks a different race deck (as of now, i'm working on the Metal Orks [orks in motorcycles], the wood elves [terraforming elves that turn empty spaces into wood to gain advantage] the Algathians [nomads that herd giant worms around the board] Dwarfs [who take to the mines, most efficient at getting gold and destroying other player's resources]) So each player would pick a rack, and for every 2 players you add another neutral race to draw from. shuffle the tiles (there are 4 different types, wood, plains, stone, gold) and put 4 down for each player in the game (keeping in mind one of hte endgame objectives is to get 6 altogether, to try and end the game while you're on top)

gameplay: This game uses a strong deck-building mechanic to really force players to think outside the box. Just because their specific race might not be particularly good at something, they can still "recruit" from teh neutral decks available. Each card has a VP value that doubles as a income value during the regular turns. When a player's turn comes about, he may play one card from their hand, that will put a new unit/or building on the board, then they may discard a card to perform an action (keeping in mind there are several different units or buildings that will alter how many actions you can take per discard) or you can discard for income to recruit from the neutral decks. Players will have to place workers on the board to gather resources as well since every unit they have available has upkeep costs. If a player cannot manage to pay the upkeep cost for a unit it is discarded. If a unit dies during battle it goes into the "dead" pile and is out of the game. Units that are close to dying but not dead yet, can retreat into their own homelands then retreated into their discard, but if killed anywhere outside or in a contested area they can be destroyed.

Different actions will give you victory points, once the visible amount reaches the limits, players will count up how many points they still have in their active cards, add it to that total and declare the winner.

so, any thoughts? or blaring mishaps that I'm overlooking?

RGaffney
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Joined: 09/26/2011
Theme

Many game designers love algorithms and mechanics. I love theme.

I want to here about how you are going to build your theme in the game such that I can experience the world you have created. I like dwarfs, if I am playing as the dwarfs in your game what will make me feel "dwarfy"?

After all I can play Sorry, but call the green pawn "wood elves" and the blue pawn "mountain dwarfs" etc. I can give the sorry pawns different abilities, but if I don't tie those things strongly to theme, I'm not going to have any more fun than I would by just playing regular Sorry.

silasmolino
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Joined: 02/01/2013
Mechanics

Perhaps you should give more details about the six races and how they will play differently from one another.

Is the game assymetrical or do all races start with the same abilities?

Based on your summary it reads like a Lord of the Rings-meets-Dune-meets-Dominon-meets-Accension-meets-MtG.

If you havnt read either book (LotR, Dune) or played the aformentioned games, I would suggest playing them.

Good Luck!

RGaffney
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Joined: 09/26/2011
uhhh..

To clarify, I get different abilities, what I am asking is how those abilities are tied to theme. Smallworld for instances has races with abilities that do very little to connect you to who they are. As a result it's easy to dump that race for another that has little to do with it after a turn or two. Compare to Resistance, where scifi or not tension mounts as spies lie to their friends and rebels become increasingly desperate and paranoid in real life.

Ok so dwarfs are good at mining. Fine. What is mining? Do they just get more resource cards, or do I the player end up doing something slow and steady that provides income in exchange for time? Is that thing I do fun?

And if the themes are not strong and the races are pretty similar... do you really need them? King of Tokyo does not differentiate the monsters but it establishes theme well with great art and oversized game pieces. Maybe there is a work around

abdantas
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Joined: 11/13/2012
Thanks for the input guys. I

Thanks for the input guys. I plan on really emphasizing what their strengths and weaknesses are as a race into their abilities. Like the first one I'm working on is the
- Algathians (Worm Riders) They are meant to be almost like cowboys/gypsies/native americans that follow these worms around wherever they go. The way they gather resources is different then let's say the dwarves for instance. The Worm Riders gather resources by travelling over the resource tiles and leaves then unusable for the next turn, but they cannot build structures as some of the other ones that can provide them with a steady flow of resources, but they are extremely mobile. Yet, they're big weakness is if you don't have any Worm Keepers in play, the worms just move all willy nilly over the map, moving from resource to resource, wherever they care to go.
- The dwarves are meant to be ravage the land from underground. Basically they will be 100% about gold, as I think they should be. They are extremely efficient at gathering gold, they can build mines, use wood and gold to build siege engines, but they don't really have a sustainable source of food income, they have the dwarven landhunters that can use forest spaces to gather food (hunt), but it's not a good way to make cash. They're more interested in gold. gold gold gold. They're main way of getting resources is using that Gold that they are hording to trade with other players for the supplies needed. The dwaves can also extend their mines into other tiles to increase gold production, but it ravages those tiles and makes them unusable as income for other players.
- The wood elves are all about the forest. Unlike some of the other elven races I have in mind, they cannot live outside of the forest. They don't use much gold, they don't use stone at all, but outside of the passive bonuses that the being in forest tiles grant them (which is a huge bonus) they are relatively weak troops. Their druids can terraform the outlying tiles of their land into forest tiles to try and expand their forest that way, and although costly it can be very effective if you can maintain the and army to hold your borders.
- Metal Orks - The metal orks right now are supposed to be a very tribal offensive race. Unlike the dwarves, they have very few buildings they can build, usually crappy like tents that don't do very much for them, BUT they have 2 capabilities that are very, very impressive. The Orks are going to be all about conquering, they rather pillage and plunder then farm and mine. Orks first of all have bloodlust whenever their chief is in play, that makes them stronger after every victory with the potential of the Chief to eventually become the weakest unit (since he does not get crazy like the other orks, he's supposed to be smarter) Orks have Shaman that can send them into a frenzy, Orks steal resources from other players upon successfully winning a challenge. Basically, they are menat to be big, fast and mean. A big problem with them though, is that once the other races have fortified a bit, the orks become a huge liability since they don't have any kind of production of resource production of their own.

I still have yet to think of the other ones, but i plan on having 12 races altogether. so even with a 6 player game, there would be 6 races, and 4 races of mercenaries to buy from. Neutral races are races that depending on what people you have in play at the beginning of your turn, you can buy to fatten up your deck. So let's say we're playing as the ork, a dwarven mine might come up, and htey might choose to use their marshalling points this turn to recruit that mine into their own decks, so when it finally comes around and is played, they finally have a steady from of income.

I need some ideas for some of the other playable races, any thoughts?

RGaffney
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Wow okay so very distinct

Wow okay so very distinct then. When you said you would be able to make u for weaknesses i assumed that meant all the races would essentially play the same way.

Generally fantasy Archetypes follow the 4 humors: Choleric, Phlemetic, Meloncholic, and Sanguine. Most commonly represented by the Orcs, the Elves, the Dwarfs, and the Cute Race (Hobbits, Halflings... sometimes fairees)

So you are clearly missing the sanguine, fun loving, race if you are looking for adherence to tradition.

On the other hand I love the uniqueness of the worm riders, and you won't make it to 12 on tradition alone. I would consider

Humans, who could be depicted as regimented or military like
Gnomes, Like to build gadgets, could be fun int his world
Undead, classic trope, could be fun mechanics, maybe they work off the discard pile
Amazons, perhaps prefering conquest and capture over the Orcs, pilliage and steal
Lizardmen, perhaps sharing some ancestor with dragons
Mermaids, in the water
Monastics, "cleanest" of the races, building units by converting other races
And Halflings, like I mentioned

abdantas
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Joined: 11/13/2012
Yes. The one's I have are

Yes. The one's I have are some of the more distinct ones. Humans will definitely be one of the races, I plan on making them more of a resource gathering race. They won't be particularly spectacular at attacking or defending, but they'll be able to gather all the resource types. Gnomes is another one on my list, like i said because of the futuristic setting, the gnomes are going to be all about manning giant robots and using technology to their advantage, where the dwarfs are drunk, crazed battle hungry miners, I see the gnomes being a more restricted race that prizes technology, I see them in my mind as mostly being so devoted to this that they all have implanted technology onto themselves, so basically, cyborgnomes.

I had not thought of using the undead to be a deck that plays off their discard more then anything else. That to me sounds like an excellent idea. They could have a necromancer in their deck that could speed up how fast you could pull cards from the discard, maybe the undead races could start of strong, but the longer they go without winning a confrontation the weaker they get. That could be a very interesting mechanic to put into this game.

Well, the orks do have a slave camp building that's very expensive to keep out, but it lets them turn defeated enemy soldiers into workers. (just to clarify, cards will fall into 3 types, structures (non-attacking high defense and HP that provide a passive bonus but can't move, workers, that provide you usually with some resource bonus or special resource flavored ability, also, they get 1 resource just for being on whatever tile they are in. then soldiers, soldeirs usually have a battle oriented abilities, they get a passive +1/1 against worker units since they are better trained) Although I do enjoy the idea of a race of Amazons, I can't really think of how they would differ from the orcs enough to really set them apart, unless you make them a more structured group, give them more buildings, and make them more of ranged fighters that prize advances(in my mind it makes me think of an army of Ghosts from StarCraft). So they develop nukes, and military things like tanks, and downplay it by making them extremely inefficient in close range combat. The amazons in this game are long range experts, preferring to destoy the enemy before they even realize who's there.

Lizardmen could be all about their swamp. They could see themselves as being superior to other races by being the last remaining relatives of the dragons. It'd be interesting to style them into an almost nazi-like regime. Make it so they favor blitzkrieg attacks and ambushes that they run out of their swamps. Basically make it so that if you park your units beside a swamp that they inhabit, you should be extra careful.

Mermaids (in my mind I was thinking Kraken-folk, like the guy with the tentacle beard from Pirates of the Caribbean) They'll be a race of sea-folk that since the waters dried up (maybe future lore could add more water to the world) they have taken to the skies. Basically they wil have slow moving, slow firing mega structures that need to be manned to work. So basically they will fly around the map with their broadside cannons, they won't be easy to face, but easy to outrun.

I didn't think of any kind of race that converts (basically steals) cards from other players. They could be a sect of some ancient religion in the game lore. Battle-priests. They will have their monasteries and buildings, be able to gather resources for themselves, but I see them having some things like, being able to convert other players units, so if someone else kills a member of the Chragath Priesthood, the Chargath player may choose to steal that character and place him in his own deck. Make them a passive race, that don't really attack on their own, but through their conversion and martyrdom, they expand by drawing enemy forces and making them their first line of defense, All Hail Chargath!

I think if gnomes are around halflings might not be as necessary, but i think deformen cybernetic gnomes might not fall under the "cutesy" category. I think just plain old halflings might be a bit boring, maybe you can give them wings and make them almost like a race of cherubs. Their offensive capabilities can be akin to those birds that just gang up on the big guy. They would be flying, which would make them only damageable by either ohter flying character or ranged characters like the amazon or the siege engine. I really like the idea of someone having a race that can fly around. They could be great spy and scout units. Right now I have only added 1 scout unit to the game, the Algathians (worm riders) Outrider. Once he moves into an enemy's homeland (any tiles with only their units that's connected to their capital) they get to look at their hand, and once he moves back into his own homeland the owner may draw and play an extra card, BUT they are extremely costly to keep on the field.

the two decks I have finished (i'm getting 4 decks to start playtesting, then adding more as I go) are the Algathians, and the Dwarfs (I think I'd like to name em something different, like the Lords of Undermountain, idk) The Algathians have no structures, they have worm riders that can control the giant worms, otherwise the giant worms just go where they want, they have Canine's that allow the Worm Rider to control 2 worms, the canine also can take damage for whatever Worker you attach him to. Then there's the outriders, and the Merchants. That are workers that take 2 resource tile, and can use the same tiles as an opponent without it being considered as contested.
The Dwarves have their mine, which they can use to teleport around from entrance to entrance (i think of this as there being a vast underground network no one else knows how to use) the miners can expand the mine damaging the surrounding tiles and making them unusable but increasing the income of that mine per turn (dwarves are obsesed with gold in this game) They have their Mead Hall that gives them passive bonuses to all adjacent squares (Liquid Courage!) and their Proving Grounds, that let all their Worker units be considered Soldiers while in battle. then they have their fortifications that give them a defense bonus in their homeland, their engineers that they need to use their biggest offensive tool, the siege engine, and their bombardier (suicide bombers) Like i said, I like to think of the dwarves as people who drank themselves crazy;

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