Skip to Content
 

Dutch Designer Looking for Help and Inspiration!

5 replies [Last post]
Voron
Offline
Joined: 10/15/2013

Hello everybody!

I'm a new starting amateur game designer. My favorite games are 4X games (and my least favorite games are deck builders) So it's no strange thing that I like to design my own 4X games. Although mostly they turn out to be not more then another worker-placement or resource-management game. That's why I joined this forum, I can use all the help I can get. So now on to my current project: The Rise of the Guilds (work in progress name)

In the Rise of the Guilds, players take the role of one of the many different Guilds in a city. They try to expend their influence throughout the city and become the ruling faction. But they can't do this alone. Paying the villagers of the city to build their buildings or give them soldiers might be to expensive sometimes, but if one of the players is the Builders-guild or the City-watch they can pay them a reduced amount to get what they want. But the players have to be aware, because not everybody in the city is happy with the Guilds... So what will you do, and who will you ally with, when you try to get your Guild to the top?

The most basic idea of the game is to create a 4X game where the players try to be cooperative and fight each other at the same time. Now I'm just looking for some other cooperative 4x games with a last-man-standing-wins element in it. I've played all kind of games from Diplomacy to Twilight Imperium. But I'm looking for more of these kind of games. And it would be interesting to hear your opinion about it.

Aerjen
Offline
Joined: 08/28/2008
Dutch & Delicious

Ok, that's just a text on my lunchbox that I really like. Being Dutch and living in the states, I feel compelled to respond to your request. Being a psychologist by trade that means I won't give you an answer, but will just ask you questions...

Why are you looking for a 4X game with a player elimination element in it? Can you tell me a bit more about your design goals? Have you checked out the (hopefully) upcoming game of Asmadi Games yet: http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/144239/impulse

Voron
Offline
Joined: 10/15/2013
To combine both competitive and cooperative gameplay!

I'm not 100% looking for a 4x game with a player element element in it. But more of a 4x game where people need to cooperate but with only one winner eventually. Most 4x games have not enough diplomacy or reasons to work together. In Rise of the Guilds, people have to need eachothers help, so eliminating a player punishes the other players.

The idea of Rise of the Guilds began a couple of years ago when I was playing Catan with friends. I was thinking if it was possible to give every player a monopoly of a resource. One player has all the wood, one player all the wool etc. So that way people NEED to trade to play. Then I started thinking if it was possible to let players also have a monopoly in buildings. So if you wanted to build a city, you could pay 2grain and 3iron to the bank. Or give another player 1 grain and 1 iron to get your city. Of course, because of other rules in Catan this would be almost impossible.

That's why I decided to make my own game. My first game was highly Catan inspired obviously. The Kingdom of Ellian. Every player was a faction in the kingdom. The Arcane University, Steamwork Inc, The Holy Church, The Deamon Cult, etc etc. They fight each other both on the battlefield and with politics. But they also work together to survive. The university can sell elementals or spells. Steamwork Inc sells airships and builds railroads for faster transport. The Church can protect your city and soldiers. Or you might kill the current King and blame it on the Cult (which helps them become more notorious).
One added thing to this game was that every faction had his arch-enemy (magic-tech, holy-demon) and eliminating your arch-enemy was one of the victory conditions.

But I put that game on hold, it became a little bit to big. So I'm almost starting from scratch with Rise of the Guilds. So to say it easy, my design goal is to combine both competitive and cooperative gameplay. The best I can think of atm is Shadows over Camelot, but with every player having their own hidden agenda.

Aerjen
Offline
Joined: 08/28/2008
Thinking is hard in the morning

Ok, I think I get what you want to do and I'd be interested in seeing where you take things. In that case it doesn't matter too much whether you look towards 4x games for how they promote player cooperation. I think there are quite a couple of games where you have both competition and cooperation at the same time and they seem to have different ways of going about achieving that. Here are some ways that I've seen in games before:

- Hidden roles/different player goals: SoC falls into this category, just like Battlestar Galactica, The Resistance or Mafia
- Fight against the game, but keep a score of who's doing best. If you tweak the balance so that it's impossible to win on your own, that may result in the desired gameplay. I think it's not too difficult to implement rules like this to some existing games that are now purely coops. E.g. Pandemic, Space Alert or Arkham Horror.
- I think your example of giving each player dominion over a single resource can work as well. One potential problem with the rules you mentioned for your initial idea is that if a player is in a bad mood, that he/she can block the entire game by not trading at all. Although if you have some enforcement for trading that might fix this.

saiyanslayer
Offline
Joined: 10/08/2013
Some Ideas

I second the Hidden Player Goals. It keeps people from stopping your plays (Look! He only needs one more point and he gets points each time he trades a Baker! No one trade with him!). I also find hidden victory points fun.

When I think of a competitive game that forces player co-operation I remember a game of Monopoly I played years ago. One person refused to trade unless they got the better end of the deal. They ended up winning by shear luck. Keep that in mind. I would make the most lucrative victory points based on trading and assisting others.

If I were to design a game like this, I would use cards heavily. One set of cards to set player goals (grants victory points at the end of the game when scores are revealed), one set to represent player points (obfuscate who is winning), and maybe a Boon/Banes deck where players can secretly add cards to help or hinder actions (similar to Battlestar Galactica).

Geez, starting to sound like a fun game.

I'd make each faction (Foodmakers Guild, Merchants Guild, Stonecutters Guild, Merc Guild, Entertainers Guild) have control over a resource (Foodstuff, Commerce, Structures, Security, Pleasure) which would each be a coloured card with a value. Those cards can be used to build things to get you victory points. They can also be used to sabotage players: players could invest their resources to cause a build to fail.

As for resources, you could allow someone to trade 3 of one resource for another by going outside the city. Alternatively, you could agree with another player to gather the resource and both of you can trade a 1-for-2 ratio. Or you could just trade on agreed terms.

You could also play with the idea of contracts, where a player has to supply so much resources per turn for so many turns. That should tie into a reputation system that rewards those who keep their word. Rumour cards could attack someone's reputation (maybe include one of those into the group action). Certain cards may also remove rep if you play them openly, but could have a bigger payoff.

Voron
Offline
Joined: 10/15/2013
All that input O_O

Thanks for those comments people!

@Aerjen: Thanks for the advice! Never played Arkam Horror or Battlestar Galactica, so time to try those!

@Saiyanslayer: Big list of things to add. Although I've implented most of those thing to my other game, Kingdom of Ellian, its nice to see other designers having the same idea's. Although one huge problem I'm still thinking of is, if people play with only 3-4 players instead of the max (6-8) then some guilds wont be played. So some resources can't be traded.

One thing I am putting in the game is variable victory points. For example: Having 20 food might give you 3 victory points, but if you are the farmers guild, it gives you only 1 victory point.

But first, thinking of expanding the theme some more before going on to mechanics! Friends of mine told me about the Magic: The Gathering world of Ravnica and Discworld's Ankmorkpokh. I might base Rise of the Guilds on one of those settings (for the time being, before changing all the names)

Syndicate content


forum | by Dr. Radut